PAM bestie, AW24 collaborator, and esteemed artist and filmmaker in her own right, Martine Syms answers from the heart (and from the bath) a few of our burning questions... You can see the full capsule here.

Hi Martine! I first want to get stuck into your work with PAM. How did it come about for you? What's your relationship with fashion, or more broadly style, or more simply clothing?

Hi! It came about after many years of fandom on my part. I used to listen to this radio show Noise in My Head a long time ago and heard some of Misha’s mixes. We had some mutual friends who were always kitted. I finally met Shauna and Misha in Paris and after many conversations and other collaborations it felt like a natural time for a capsule.

I’ve always been very particular about the way I dress. I love clothes, and frequently use my old clothes in my artwork. They’re figures. I also use other people’s old clothes — like Janet Jackson’s, for example. I’m a big design nerd and love personal style. I like how people use clothes to communicate or feel a certain way.

Sometimes I think I do it all for garms. And the children.

I really really enjoy how you toe the lines of irony and sincerity in your work. It's so clever that it feels satisfying to witness. Where should clothing be ironic and where should it be sincere?

Thank you! I like taking the piss.

I dress intuitively which can lead to some weird looks but you can always change. I just try to enjoy myself. I don’t ever wear something I don’t genuinely love. My friend Liz has a Lehman Brothers hat I covet. That’s as far as I push it. Or my friend Thomas wore Livestrong exclusively once Lance Armstrong was disgraced.

That doesn’t feel ironic, that feels conceptual. I am into a high concept outfit even when most people won’t get it. That’s fashion, dahling!!!

When I was punk, sometimes I would wear my makeup really fucked up on purpose but also I didn’t know how to do it anyway. I don’t know if I was being ironic per se. I play with my appearance a lot because I have extreme dysmorphia / dysphoria and I can’t always see myself.

One time my friend (I guess friendship and style are connected for me) Rosa and I were shopping and I came out the dressing room and was like “I don’t know if it’s flattering,” to which she responded “I don’t know if I care about flattering” which kicked open a door in my mind. I was free.

The wardrobe on The African Desperate was really clever. I particularly loved when Erin Leland's character Hannah came through with the iconic pink Karen Walker shades. Did you have a lot of input for the references or the direction of each character's styling?

I had notes for each character based on archetypes from our world. There were a lot of in jokes in the way people were dressed. Or tells about their arc. My bff was the costume designer and we used both of our wardrobes for the cast.

On clothing, I am always quite curious about the clothing people hold onto. Sometimes I'm so unsentimental, but there are a few things, t-shirts maybe, that I have with deep memories. Do you have any pieces like that? Any stories?

My friend Derek gave me a Bulls 3-peat tee when we lived in Chicago and got obsessed with the Bulls. (I have a Bulls tattoo from this era, but I’m also a Taurus so it’s fine).

10 years later I put this shirt in an artwork that was on view at a museum and a teen stole it. Which was sort of the best I could hope for.

I replaced then later my friend Liliana sent me the same exact vintage bulls shirt as a surprise because she read the story somewhere.

Let’s see what happens this time [taps fingers together like cartoon villain]

I read a quote from you, where you've said "ultimately all cultural output is text." I wonder if you might expand on that a bit, as well in connection to "don't ask me 4 shit" - I know what it means for me, but what does it mean for you?

That shirt is a remake of a beloved gift from my friend Erica Bech. Erica and I were designers together at an unnamed fashion company that sucked. We were constantly being asked for shit.

I lost the shirt (are you sensing a theme) when my car was stolen in Detroit. She didn’t have anymore of them and she’s successful and mad busy so this a fun bootleg.

With the framework of media studies everything is a text that can be read. I learned this formally in school, but was raised to think critically about pop culture. My friends and I live to read, pun intended.

When was the last time you said no?

This evening to drinks at Stir Crazy. I’m writing this from the bath.

Also text: it comes across that you're an avid reader - I think our readers might like to know, from your perspective, what is the one book you feel all people should read?

The Bible. I don’t think I’m joking. I don’t believe in canon and I’m bad at picking favorites. The last book I read was There There by Tommy Orange, and Book of Neptune by Stephen Forrest. I like to read two at a time. Right now I’m re-reading The Intutionist by Colson Whitehead and The Cultural Cold War by Frances Saunder.

I read, too, that you like to quote films a lot - best line ever?

I don’t do it on purpose. My brain is rotted. Lately I’ve been saying “What, like it’s hard?” a lot.

Every time I pass a mirror I say or think “Mirror, Father, Mirror” soo yeah.

Back on favourites: your favourite part of working on this collaboration?

It was effortless and fun. That’s why I said yes. As Misha said, if it ain’t fun don’t do it.

Photos by Martine Syms ©2024